Multiple guests debated on a Wednesday episode of Dr. Phil over whether being “inclusive” to transgender people cheapens the idea of womanhood.
Dr. Phil spoke to guests and the audience about how the term “woman” has increasingly been replaced with gender-neutral terms, such as “birthing person” and “persons with uteruses,” in order to cater to transgender politics. He brought in multiple females guests as well as transgender activists to debate whether the push toward “inclusion” actually leads to the “erasure” of women.
Women’s activist Kara Dansky defended the accomplishments of women throughout history, arguing they are a biologically distinct group.
“Dr. Phil earlier was talking about how the women’s movement has achieved certain objectives. Women have had to fight for our rights for thousands of years all over the world and for hundreds of years in this country because we have been discriminated against and excluded from public civil society from the educational arena, from the legal arena, from numerous arenas on the basis of sex,” she recalled. “And many of us who support those movements are not about to turn around and pretend that sex is not a meaningful, legal, and physical category.”
HIV and trans activist Chandi Moore argued that transgender people who identify as women should be included as women, asking, “So, why not have another group of women join your fight” in order to have “more force in numbers?”
When asked if “trans women are welcome to join the movement,” Dansky drew a firm line.
“I don’t mean men. I mean women. It’s not a matter of opinion. We’re talking about the material reality of biological sex, which is grounded in science and reality,” Dansky declared. “Women are female and men are male, and it’s ok to say that. It’s ok to say that. It really is.”
Another guest introduced themselves as “Danny” and said, “I’m a non-binary birther. For those of you who don’t know, I gave birth to my child 20 months ago at home. It was beautiful. It was a spiritual experience. I did it as a non-binary person, not as a woman, just to be very clear.”
While claiming to not want to erase women, Danny suggested that giving birth does not necessarily make somebody a “mother.“
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“By no means do I want to erase women. But there’s a difference between division and inclusion. I don’t want to create division. I use ‘birthing person.’ I am not a woman. I do not identify as a mother. I know many women who have given birth who don’t identify as mothers because there’s a difference between the two,” Danny claimed. “But going back to me, just because I gave birth doesn’t make me a woman or a mother, and there needs to be space in the birthing world that allows me to show up as a birthing person.“
Danny complained that there is a lack of media validating the idea that not all people who give birth are women.
“There is no language. There’s no books. There’s very few podcasts. When I was pregnant, I had very little support outside of my community as a birthing person because of the lack of inclusive language. Inclusive language isn’t just about language. It’s about opening doors. It’s about safety. It’s about creating space for others,” Danny claimed. “We don’t want to push women out. We want to join you in your fight because we know what it feels like to be erased every single day. And I would not wish that upon anybody.”
Dr. Phil turned to Moore and asked whether the activist wanted to erase the concept of women.
“I agree with Danny 100%. We love women. They are at the front for— but we need to be included in this mission that they’re on because we’re here,” Moore said. “Regardless of what you say my genitals are, I’m still here representing myself as the woman of trans experience that I am.”
“I would like some clarification on when I had anything to say about your body at all,” Dansky replied.